DIY or DYOR? The NCA's Guide to Crypto Confidence | Ali Tager

The narrative around cryptocurrency is often bogged down by complexity, hype, and fear of scams. In this episode, host Lauren Weymouth cuts through the noise with Ali Tager, Head of Communications for the National Cryptocurrency Association (NCA), to reveal who is really using crypto in America and why.

The NCA is on a mission to bridge the knowledge gap, focusing not on lobbying or existing industry players, but on helping everyday Americans understand and use digital assets with confidence.

In this conversation, you will learn:

• 🧠 The Truth About Crypto Users: Learn surprising stats that debunk the "crypto bro" myth, including why more holders are over 55 than under 25.
• 🛡️ Promoting Safe Adoption: Ali shares the NCA's advice on how to spot scams, the importance of "Do Your Own Research (DYOR)," and the role of strong consumer protections.
• 🏘️ Real-World Utility: Discover how crypto is being used today—from single mothers gaining financial independence to cattle ranchers tracking goods on the blockchain.
• ⚖️ The Role of Regulation: Understand how the NCA works to educate policymakers and why clear "rules of the road" are essential for innovators and consumers alike.

Tune in to hear how the NCA is spearheading a movement toward mainstream adoption by ensuring that when it comes to digital assets, even the "crypto-curious" and "crypto-clueless" have a resource they can trust.

Transcript

Lauren (00:03)

Hi, I'm Lauren Weymouth, leading Ripple's University Blockchain Research Initiative, the UBRI program that collaborates with global universities to accelerate understanding, adoption, and innovation in the blockchain technology space. Our podcast, All About Blockchain, looks behind the curtain of what academic and industry partners and organizations are doing to evolve the space. The goal is to convey how blockchain and cryptocurrency are solving problems around the world.

Today, we're going to cut through the noise and get to the world of what's happening in digital assets. We're joined by Ali Tager, Head of Communications for the National Cryptocurrency Association. Now, despite growing interest in adoption of crypto, many people lack a fundamental understanding of how it works.

Okay, Ali has a crucial role in cryptocurrency ecosystem, educating consumers and the broader public to help bridge this knowledge gap. Ali, it's so great to see you again. Welcome to All About Blockchain.

Ali Tager (01:06)

Likewise, thank you so much for having me on today.

Lauren (01:10)

Okay, so your organization is relatively new to the scene, but you're making a big splash. I've got a list of questions I want to dive into covering everything from NCA's mission to the future of crypto in America. So let's just jump right in. Now, the crypto space is a crowded one with many associations and advocacy groups. How does the National Cryptocurrency Association differentiate itself from groups like the Blockchain Association, Women in Crypto, or the Digital Chamber?

Ali Tager (01:38)

Yeah, of course, that's a great question. And we know that a lot of those organizations are out there doing really important work, but those really focus much more on mobilizing the existing crypto community, advancing policy or legislation, lobbying, getting out the vote. Whereas the NCA, we're not just here for existing crypto holders. We are not a political lobbying or advocacy organization, nor are we beholden to any one company, protocol or project.

Our mission is really to help everyday Americans understand and use crypto with confidence. So we're really proud to be a resource for the 55 million and counting U.S. crypto holders, as well as anyone and everyone just curious to learn more. We saw that education gap as a real opportunity and we'll talk lots more about that today.

Lauren (02:23)

Awesome, so you're here for my mom.

Ali Tager (02:25)

Exactly, and mine as well. And you'll probably be surprised to hear that actually more crypto holders are over 55 than under 25. And so we know that more people are getting on chain and we really want to help set them up for success.

Lauren (02:38)

Wow, that's an interesting stat. I didn't realize that we had such a mature cryptocurrency digital asset audience.

Ali Tager (02:44)

Yes, for sure. We'll be really myth busting and breaking some stereotypes together today.

Lauren (03:04)

All right, wait, okay, I'll just jump in here. All right, so you're demystifying. Can you give us some concrete examples of what that looks like in practice?

Ali Tager (03:16)

Sure, it really starts with getting to the truth about who's using crypto in America, how and why, as well as who isn't and what's been holding them back. And so we've been working on a couple of things. The first is we are partnering with Harris Poll, the global research organization, to really conduct comprehensive surveys and research into these topics.

And what we found earlier this year when we did the biggest ever survey of crypto holders in America, we surveyed about 55,000 US adults to get to the 10,000 that told us that that was who was using crypto. And so excited to dig more into sort of what we heard from them, who they are and how they're using it. But we also did a companion survey of people who aren't holding crypto to find out what's the barrier to entry. And for those four and five US adults, they just don't get it.

They don't understand what crypto is, how it works. They're confused and lack confidence in how to buy, sell or trade crypto. And more than half of them said that they feel really overwhelmed by researching crypto. And so we're working to help bridge that knowledge gap, really creating simple, easy to understand, jargon free explainers that just make sense that you can find on our website, nca.org. And we're working on some more hands on interactive resources where folks can really put what they've learned into practice.

So that's coming very soon and excited to share more. But in addition to sort of getting the ⁓ quantitative insight on crypto in America, we're also getting more of that qualitative picture. So we've actually been traveling all across the country, you know, meeting with real people from all walks of life who are using crypto in their personal and professional lives. Everyone from Karen, who's a single mom in Texas using crypto to escape her financially restrictive and unfortunately abusive relationship. to Rob, who is a cattle rancher in Wyoming tracking and tracing cattle on the blockchain, or Hunter, who lives in LA and he's a content creator paying his team all around the world in crypto.

Lauren (05:11)

Okay, so you're getting across the country, you're meeting with people who are using digital assets for interesting use cases, but you're also ⁓ basically giving information and touching base with what I call the CryptoCurious, or what we call the CryptoCurious, those who have never bought or never felt comfortable buying digital assets. What's one piece of advice you would give to them before they take their first step?

Ali Tager (05:35)

That is such a great question. Well, certainly go to our website, nca.org, because we have lots of great sort of starter packs for folks just getting on on chain for the first time. But I would say the biggest piece of advice that I would give to the crypto curious, the crypto cautious, the crypto clueless, or anyone who just wants to start learning about the space is in the crypto world, they call it D.Y.O.R. But we spell it out. It's do your own research.

And that means that you want to ask questions, you want to stay vigilant, you want to verify your sources, use reputable platforms that ⁓ have good customer support and other ⁓ help available to you should you need it. And then really just like with anything else in the world, whether you're going to the gym or getting into crypto, start small and stay curious.

The best way to learn is really by doing. And so we want to treat, you know, your first crypto transaction, just like the first time you're taking a gym class, you're here to learn the ropes and not break a record. So take it easy and keep an open mind.

Lauren (06:38)

Yeah, I think that's really good advice. And there is a lot of information out there like this podcast to other podcasts, books, journals, blogs that really share knowledge on not just how the specific cryptocurrencies are doing, but what's the technology behind them, who's using them, what's being built on their ledgers, et cetera. Okay, so we also hear stories of people who have lost a lot of money in crypto. What's the NCA doing to promote safe adoption?

and protect consumers from scams and bad actors.

Ali Tager (07:10)

Yeah, it's such a tricky one. Ya know, unfortunately, there are fraudsters and scammers in every market. And our studies have actually shown that fear of scams and fraud is what's holding back about 43 percent of non crypto holders. But what we've also seen is that when it comes to people who are already engaging with crypto, 76 percent of them have seen a really positive impact on their lives. They are getting increased financial independence. They are learning and growing. They're having fun and feeling excitement.

and just 3 % of crypto holders have reported negative experiences. We know that the headlines make that seem much larger than it is, but it's actually less than a third of people who are using crypto who have had negative experiences have actually had a scam or fraud situation happen to them. I think when you compare that to other technologies like financial technologies with let's say Venmo or even Zelle, as well as even online dating like Bumble or Tinder, those scam incidents are actually much, much higher. And so ⁓ we're really here to help teach people how to spot these common financial and online scams and keep them safe. So it's very similar rules apply with crypto as with anything else online. You want to guard your private information. You want to pay close attention to details. Sometimes you see wonky spelling, grammar errors, ⁓ little typos in email addresses or emails that sort of tip you off to something being illegitimate.

And certainly when it comes to finance, you always want to be wary of any urgency or pressure tactics. So we sort of say the golden rule is that scams can happen to anyone, anywhere. So just always remember that if something seems too good to be true, it probably is.

Lauren (08:50)

Yeah, I mean, think that's really good advice on all forms of avoiding hackers is to really be vigilant with your email and your text messages and everything. Also, a lot of us happen to have IT departments that we can show things to before we touch them, setting bad things off. But let's dig a little bit deeper into the NCA's focus, which is on everyday Americans. That's a key part of your mission. What are the most common misconceptions you hear about from the general public? You mentioned that you've done a survey on cryptocurrency and how also are you trying to address them? You've spoken a little bit about this already, but maybe you can share some more misconceptions and how you're addressing them.

Ali Tager (09:29)

Yeah, of course. So just to sort of take a step back, we did, as mentioned, the largest ever survey of crypto holders in America. And when we think about the misconceptions, there are many, but I think the two that are the most prevalent. The first is we've all heard the myth that crypto is just for quote unquote bros, right? Often we think crypto, we think of maybe young white males working in finance or tech and living in coastal cities.

But what we found is that crypto really does not have a type. As mentioned, there are more crypto holders over 55 than under 25. Actually, nearly a third of crypto holders are women, which is so wonderful to see. Nearly as many crypto holders are working in construction as they do in technology, which is actually way more than work in finance. Many don't belong. Yeah, exactly. Many don't belong to higher income brackets. I think there's, again, a misconception that crypto is maybe just for the wealthy.

Lauren (10:12)

Very cool.

Ali Tager (10:20)

And people aren't even investing, in some cases, most people aren't investing millions or hundreds of thousands of dollars. The average crypto holder in America is holding around $5,000 in crypto, potentially even a little bit less. And they span regions and races and political party lines. So there is a pretty broad swath of crypto holders in the South, in the West, in the Northeast, really all across the country. And we're seeing really strong adoption with with minority communities as well who have historically lacked access and inclusion to traditional finance systems. So that's sort of the first one. And the second misconception that we hear often is that crypto is just for investing or potentially even, you know, those getting rich quick schemes. But our data really shows that crypto is being used for so many other things. 39 % of crypto holders are actually shopping and paying with crypto.

I definitely didn't know that you could do that. And now I'm seeing that as a checkout option at Whole Foods and Starbucks and the movie theater and so many more places. And people are also using crypto to play online games, to trade NFTs, to buy or acquire digital collectibles, and definitely to purchase property and real estate as well. That's a really emerging goose case, especially as regulation is sort of catching up to digital assets.

Lauren (11:43)

Well, I love that you brought that up because people will often ask, well, what's the difference between investing in digital assets as a store of value versus stock? And I said, well, you can buy, sell and hold stocks. You can buy, sell, hold and spend digital currency.

Ali Tager (11:56)

Exactly.

Lauren (11:58)

that's pretty neat. I love that you gave us a stat that the average hold of digital assets in a wallet is $5,000 across the country. Do you have a stat on how many people in the United States are holding cryptocurrency today?

Ali Tager (12:13)

Yeah, so according to our latest research, it's one in five US adults is holding crypto, which equates to 55 million people. And that is a tremendous number. And when we look at non holders who are curious to try crypto, as well as those who say they're likely to try it this year or acquire it for the first time, that's another almost 30 million people. So

We will be conducting our annual state of crypto holder report again in Q1 of next year. So we're really excited to see the year over year adoption trends and what we anticipate to be a pretty big uptick in crypto adoption across the country.

Lauren (12:49)

Hmm. Is there differentiation between those that create their own wallet in an exchange account or those that go through ⁓ maybe a large financial institution that's now offering crypto?

Ali Tager (13:05)

Lauren, that is such a great question. That is not something that we asked on our last survey, but I am going to make a note of that to ask it this time around because I think that there is definitely a difference in terms of hot wallets versus cold wallets, custodial versus non-custodial. And I think what we tend to see is that when people are newer to the space, they might want to go with something that's a little bit easier, like say, for instance, a Coinbase platform that will take care of a lot of the custody as well as keeping the assets as safe as can be.

I think what we've also seen is as people get more comfortable with the technology, they are moving to what they call cold or offline wallets as well. And so the way we think about it is hot wallets are more for everyday spending ⁓ and sort of more short term. Whereas if you want to hold crypto for the long term, that's when we would recommend a cold wallet so that it's offline, completely safe, and you sort of just set it and forget it until you need to use it down the line.

Lauren (13:58)

Yeah, and it's just for recently, some friends have told me that I get a little jargony on this show. And so just also diving further into that, it's like, if I want the money to be readily available in my wallet, I'm going to use a hot wallet, keep it in on the exchanges wallet that's provided to me. And that's staying on chain. If I'm going to take it off and put it in a cold wallet, that means it's not readily accessible, but it's also more secure and safer because it's not online. It can't be hacked.

Ali Tager (14:18)

Exactly.

That's exactly right. And it's funny, the jargon of crypto is definitely something that we come across as well. And we're really working to.

reduce it as much as possible to remove the complexity and hype that is surrounding the technology. And I think has unfortunately turned some people off from using crypto over the years. And so we actually also have on our website some great explainers of hot wallets versus cold wallets, ⁓ signs to look out for when you're sort of picking the platforms or exchanges you want to use, but also some resources on what the jargon all means and how to break it down in simple terms. Because we know every industry has their own jargon, right? But the more that we can demystify and simplify, I

the more people will be able to understand how this technology can benefit their daily lives.

Lauren (15:08)

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Okay, so you're this organization that's for the people, but you also have partnerships probably with a lot of crypto companies or other organizations as you're spearheading these surveys and going across the country to reach people. One of your grantors, Ripple, give you $50 million to get launched. How do you ensure that your organization's mission remains unbiased and serves the broader crypto community, not just one single company's interests?

Ali Tager (15:38)

Yeah, that's such a great question. The way to think about it is the NCA is a registered 501C4 social welfare organization. We operate entirely independently and we're really accountable to the best interest of consumers rather than product revenue or profit margins. So a really simple way to think about it is Ripple, which is our very generous grantor and we're so grateful to them. They're more focused on reaching B2B institutional investors and ultimately

They do have products that are available at a cost, whereas the NCA is simply consumer education. So I'm sure you'll see when you dig into our resources that they are incredibly neutral. You won't see mentions of really any specific companies, protocols, players, unless it's sort of a ⁓ one-on-one explainer on the different providers and platforms out there.

And as you mentioned, we are working on additional partnerships with other crypto players and other payment providers, retailers and others in the ecosystem who all sort of have this shared mission of helping everyday Americans understand and use crypto with confidence. 

Lauren (16:51)

And you've recently established an advisory board with some really high profile names. What will the role be of this board in guiding NCA's mission and strategy?

Ali Tager (17:05)

Yeah, absolutely. So our new advisory board includes Christian Carlo, who's the former chairman of the Commodity Future Trading Commission, the CFTC. And he's going to be our policy expert. so guiding the NCA's work in the policy space, we've got Joanne Barefoot, who's the head of the Alliance for Innovation Regulation. And she's going to be sort of our shepherd around all things safety and spotting scams and helping consumers stay safe from fraudsters, hackers, and so on.

Then we've got Cam Harvey, who is Duke's professor of finance and DeFi. And he's our crypto literacy expert, helping us close the knowledge gap and making sure that all of our educational explainers, resources, and upcoming hands-on tools are going to be as understandable, useful, and accurate as possible.

And then we do have a few more coming up that I have not yet been announced, so I can't share more. But the other biggest focus area for us is crypto utility. So how is this technology being used today in the US in different real world settings? So we've got some other experts and companies that you know and have heard of coming to join our board to help steer our efforts around those topics, with those four sort of themes being the most important elements of our storytelling and where we're really looking to help consumers focus the most.

Lauren (18:24)

Yeah, think utility is probably extremely important. And the names that you just gave us that you are public with, very strong board members, it seems like you have a advisory committee. So with names like John Carlo and Joanne and Cam, how is NC a working to educate policymakers and regulators who may not fully understand the underlying technology or the potential of digital assets?

Ali Tager (18:51)

Yeah, of course. As I said at the top, we are not a lobbying organization. We are not directly shaping legislation and policy. And so our role when it comes to policy and education is really twofold. The first is that we are directly educating policymakers with our research and with our real crypto holders, sort of stories and voices.

around how their constituents are engaging with this technology so that these lawmakers can make the most informed decisions about how to regulate the technology. And you're actually catching me on a great week. heading to DC tomorrow where I'm going to be sharing our research and speaking to some of these crypto holder stories with the Congressional Black Caucus at their annual legislative conference.

as well as with the Association of Women's Business Centers at their annual Power Up Summit. So really excited to meet with these Congress people and other leaders in the space and continue to really bust the myths around what crypto is for and who it's for. And the second piece for us with policy is we're educating everyday Americans about what new crypto policy policies, legislation and regulation means for them once they come to pass.

So you won't see us commenting on legislation that is still up for debate because again, that's not our role. But once something like the Genius Act comes to fruition, if I'm an everyday consumer of crypto or business using crypto, what does that mean for me? And so our data actually shows that about three quarters of just gen pop U.S. consumers support Congress advancing comprehensive crypto legislation. So we're really excited to be sharing policy momentum updates with them in ways that they can understand.

Lauren (20:24)

Okay. Thank you for that. I mean, I'm clear that you are not here to comment on upcoming legislation, but because you know regulation is such a hot topic, you're willing to go off to DC and get into the meeting rooms to educate our legislatures on how their constituents are using this tech. That's awesome. Do you think a decentralized digital currency like Bitcoin can coexist with a central bank digital currency?

I know you say you're not, you're focusing on legislation, but what is the single most important piece of legislation that needs to be passed to create a clear regulatory framework for crypto in the United States?

Ali Tager (21:55)

Yeah, absolutely. think, again, we are less focused on the specific legislations. However, what I can say is that overall regulation is positive for the industry because smart guidance is going to ultimately protect the consumers who are engaging in crypto every day, but also keep the bad actors out. And so we believe that whether you're bullish or skeptical of crypto, everyone deserves clear rules to safely navigate the space and make the right decisions for themselves.

And we've actually found that across America, folks are really echoing this sentiment. Our latest data shows that about 73 percent of Americans support stronger consumer protections in crypto and roughly the same percentage expect to see and hope to see the US become a leader in the space. So what's good for crypto policy? Well, we believe be good for all Americans. you know, crypto policy really shouldn't be a bipartisan issue. It should be focused on consumer protection.

Lauren (22:51)

And I think also the innovators are welcoming it. I work with a lot of the entrepreneurs coming out of the universities, a lot of the startups, and it's like when you're driving a car down the highway, you want to know what the speed limit is. You want to know where you can play and where you can in order to raise capital and keep going forward.

Ali Tager (23:03)

Exactly.

Yes, we completely echo that. I think this has unfortunately become a politicized issue and we think that what's really being lost from the conversation are the everyday people that are going to be impacted by the policy. And so we think more clear, smart rules of the road will be beneficial for everyone.

Lauren (23:25)

Ali, how did you come to NCA?

Ali Tager (23:28)

Yeah, I love that question. So my background is in public relations agencies. And for a long time, I was leading the PayPal business at Edelman. And so I was working with PayPal in 2018 when they launched their crypto wallet. And that was my first foray into crypto. But since then, I've worked with other fintech companies like Toast or Greenlight, really helping get the financial

tools into the hands of consumers and businesses that need them, as well as increasing financial literacy across the country. And so when I was ready to sort of make the jump from agency to quote unquote in-house or client side, brand side, whatever you may call it, I was looking at what are the industries where there is a lot of innovation happening and there is a lot of conversation happening and actually a lot of misinformation.

Prior to working with PayPal, I was working with Adobe in the AI space. And this was when Deepfakes was first sort of coming into the mainstream. And it was a similar trajectory as crypto, where you see a new technology that people don't really understand, some early bad actors that sort of spoil the bunch, and just a lot of confusion and misinformation. And it was really exciting to see the narrative around AI transform. And now it's such a part of people's everyday lives.

And so I'm excited to be working in the crypto space to sort of bring, know, reset the narrative and bring crypto along in that journey and help people understand that this is a technology. There are good and bad actors in every industry, but the more that we can educate people on how this technology works and how it can benefit them, the more we'll be able to keep those bad actors out and help the good actors thrive. So that is what brought me to the NCA.

Lauren (25:13)

Well, it's so needed and with your background, I'm so glad that you have entered this space and are here making inroads to more, you know, more mainstream adoption and really getting people comfortable and seeing the light of, there's, there's, I also get to look at a lot of blockchain for good stories or how cryptocurrency is helping with decentralized, not decentralized finance, how cryptocurrency is helping with financial inclusion in areas.

Ali Tager (25:21)

Thank you. ⁓

Exactly.

Lauren (25:43)

So looking ahead five years, what does a successful and thriving crypto ecosystem in the US look like to you? And what role do you NCA playing in making that a reality?

Ali Tager (25:54)

Yeah, of course. We know that crypto is already going mainstream. We know that it's now being used by one in five Americans. And we know that adoption is going to continue to rise. ⁓ And what we see is a really successful ecosystem means that consumers are more well-informed. They are more equipped with clear guidance on how they can use the technology safely and responsibly. We'll see ideally a decrease in the prevalence of scams or at least people falling victim to said scams.

and shifting the perception across the country of ⁓ more towards understanding and accurate public discourse. Again, I think we've all seen a lot of negative click-baity headlines around crypto that don't really paint the full picture of what the technology can do. And so we want to shift away from those stereotypes and misinformation or even disinformation. And as we see crypto continue to evolve, we at the NCA are going to continue to support Americans in navigating the space.

we sort of say our job will probably never be done because this technology will always continue to evolve and innovate and more and more people will continue to get on chain. And it's such an ever evolving dynamic situation. So we just want to make sure that we are here to support everybody so that again, they can make the best possible decisions for themselves about if, when, where, how and why to use crypto.

Lauren (27:15)

Exactly. I think even as the user experience gets easier, additionally, I tell a lot of people that can't seem to wrap their brain around crypto, it might end up being a thing where you don't need to understand how it works. It's just going to be in the background of everything we're doing. Kind of like, can't explain to you how the internet works, but I use it for everything I do.

Ali Tager (27:37)

100 % agree with that. It's interesting again, sort of the parallels between AI and crypto where back, you know, 10 plus years ago, there was a lot of conversation with AI around large language models, LLMs, what does it mean? How does it work? And now we have things like chat GPT or Gemini and people don't care so much about how the tech works. All that they care about is that they are using it safely and it's making their days, lives, jobs easier.

And so that's a conversation that I have often with folks that I encounter in the real world, potentially even the skeptics as well of when people say, I don't get crypto, I don't get how it works. And I say, I completely understand. ⁓ How does email work when you send me an email or when you send me a text message? How does it get to me? And I think it's sort of that aha light bulb moment of I don't understand and I don't need to in order to use it. And so I think the more we can share and show how crypto is just like other technologies, the more folks will get more comfortable with it because we fear what we don't understand, right? And that's completely normal human nature. And so we want to help people understand it and really give them the confidence to embrace crypto and benefit from it

Lauren (28:36)

That's right.

That's great. And that's why you're focusing on the utility because when we have all the use cases, then people are using it. You know, we'll see mass adoption.

Ali Tager (28:53)

I completely agree and I'm excited to come back on the show in the not so distant future and share even more ways that people are using crypto in their daily lives. We've got artists like Autumn in LA who is using crypto and blockchain technology to uplift other creators in the art community. What you may not think about is when your work is sold, it's sold and you never hear about it again. But with something like crypto, you can actually see every time your work is sold, resold, resold and so on and ensure that you're constantly as an artist getting another cut of the profits or  nonprofits like Movember. They are using accepting crypto donations to reach new audiences around the world or caregivers in Alabama who have, you know, charges that are, that have complex medical needs and they're using crypto as an emergency piggy bank for unforeseen medical expenses or quick access to their funds for even everyday expenses like groceries. So the more that we can continue to show that people from all walks of life are using this technology in many different ways, I think the more normalized it will become and the more confidence people will have to dip their toes into crypto.

Lauren (30:16)

These are such great examples. Are these listed on your website?

Ali Tager (30:20)

They are indeed. So if you go to nca.org, you've got our stories page where you can hear from real crypto holders on how they're using the technology in different ways. And then if you go to our learn page, you will see a simple jargon free explainers on what crypto is, what you can do with it, how to stay safe, how to set up a wallet and many other topics.

Lauren (30:40)

That's great. I think this is a great place to end, Allie. Thank you so much for your time and for sharing all your insights with us. It was a fascinating conversation talking about the National Cryptocurrency Association. We look forward to NCA success and for you joining us again sometime. ⁓ We look forward to NCA success. Thank you for joining us today.

Ali Tager (31:03)

Thank you so much for having me.

Lauren (31:05)

And to our listeners and subscribers, thank you for your ears and for your feedback. To my UBRI at ripple.com email. If you have any questions about this episode or ideas for future episodes, please reach out until next time.