Blockchain Online Voting System | Aerin Kim

Worried about voter rigging? There is so much distrust in electoral systems around the world.  Nations seek a fairer, more efficient, transparent way to hold elections.

Public blockchains make voting and counting information accessible at any time and because every voter's vote is stored on a publicly readable blockchain,
each voter can verify that their vote is stored securely.

A conversation with Zkrypto Head of Business Development, Aerin Kim about a project under Professor Hyunok Oh that spun off from Hanyang University. 

Check out this timely conversation about revolutionary zkVoting that ensures votes cannot be altered or tampered with.

Transcript

Lauren Weymouth: 00:09 I'm Lauren Weymouth and I helped launch and now run Ripple's University Blockchain Research Initiative, which we call UBRI. This is the program that supports universities worldwide in accelerating understanding, adoption and innovation with blockchain technology, crypto and fintech. We're recording today's podcast live from our Ripple San Francisco headquarters and have got the head of business development for Zkrypto sitting with me in the production studio. Hi, Aerin Kim. 

Welcome to All About Blockchain.

Aerin Kim: 00:34 Hi, Lauren. (laughs) Very happy to be here.

Lauren Weymouth: 00:37 We're going to learn about one of Zkrypto's services. zkVoting, The first public blockchain-based voting system that uses zero-knowledge proof. Now, for those skeptical about election results, check this out. [00:01:00] It's very timely. I mean, we're in the middle of an election season here in the U.S., so it's poignant to discuss new and improved systems to further our democracy. Okay, so we're looking to better understand the future of safe, transparent and efficient voting. Aerin, why are you in town? What has you in San Francisco?

Aerin Kim: 01:04 other than trying to squeeze in as many restaurants and cafes as I possibly can imagine, I'm here for TechCrunch, to introduce our latest product, Fineapple, it’s a hybrid exchange, featuring the first ever realtime, proof of reserve protocol. And, of course, I'm thrilled to be here and talking all things zero-knowledge proofs and voting systems with you here today.

Lauren Weymouth: 01:28 Amazing. And I know  you're a foodie, because when I was in Seoul, you gave me some phenomenal recommendations on great restaurants.well, how's TechCrunch going for you?

Aerin Kim: 01:36 Oh, my God, it's honestly been my favorite trade show till date. I've been in a a couple  across the globe and just  the vibe here is, is different. And I know that sounds so prosaic, but, genuinely the kind of people that you get to meet, the entrepreneurs, the engineers, the judges, [00:02:30] the speakers  I was lining up for coffee as one does, and I, I ended up striking a conversation with, a partner from, from SAP. And I was like, "Oh, my goodness." it was just like the kind of opportunities that don't really happen to you on a day-to-day basis.

it was just a really cool opportunity to, to meet founders and, to see them pitch because you, [00:03:00] you learn. You learn about the new trends. You learn about different products. You learn about, "Oh, that's actually a need i- i- in today's society." And you learn.

Lauren Weymouth: 02:24 Yeah. Well, I definitely think that's why founders and startups flock to San Francisco. I mean, partly probably because of the energy coming from Silicon Valley, all the support that's here. I actually happen to partake in a leadership embodied offsite last weekend with a handful of founders, all female.  The energy was off the hook. I mean, it was just so powerful to be a part of that here. all right. So Zkrypto has multiple services And today we're focusing on zVoting. But maybe you can quickly give us an overview of the company, like where you're based and how long you've been open, how many employees, that kinda stuff.

Aerin Kim: 02:54 Sure. we, specialize in zero-knowledge proofs. We are the ZK experts, having, um, a background in over decades of experience.in the cryptography field, since our founders [00:04:00] are professors in the information and computer science fields., we were founded in December 2020. So it's been four years now. Headquartered in Seoul. But I'm now very happy to share that we've recently, as of October, we've established a U.S. headquarters, in Irvine, California. 

so, yeah, it's our mission is really just to empower, um, secure, transparent interactions across, the blockchain landscape, from [00:04:30] finance supply chain, fintech and governance through zero-knowledge proofs.

Lauren Weymouth: 03:32 Well, welcome to America. I'm so glad to have you guys here in California. for our listeners who aren't familiar with the term zero-knowledge proof. Can you give us just a quick high-level snippet on what that is?

Aerin Kim: 03:43 zero-knowledge proof is basically a cryptography that verifies information without revealing privacy. So, for example, when there's a transaction, it's going to be let's say in a safe, you [00:05:00] can't see what that is. But ... with zero-knowledge proofs, we can basically verify what's inside that safe without revealing what's in the safe. how I like to explain is that imagine you have a picture and, . it's a picture of flowers, let's say. And there's a puffin in the midst of flowers. I don't know how that analogy-... came, but, uh, let's carry on. and you know here the puffin is, right? You know, there, there's [00:05:30] a picture, there's flowers and there's a puffin. You can see it. And then when you cover the picture with, an even larger piece of black paper, for example, and there's a hole, you don't know where this puffin is. Right? Because the puffin could be in the far-left corner or, in the center, because the black paper is, is so large. Right?, but you still know through the black paper that there is a puffin. You just don't know where it is. And that's how I would describe zero-knowledge proof. Where it's verifying information without [00:06:00] revealing the important privacy, aspects of the information.

Lauren Weymouth: 04:49 I have never it described that way, but that was pretty awesome. So basically, this introduce a breakthrough in privacy.

Aerin Kim: 04:57 Yes.

Lauren Weymouth: 04:58 Okay. All right. So give us your elevator pitch for the suite of services that you offer in the realm of protecting privacy on blockchain.

Aerin Kim: 05:04 At Zkrypto, we are zero-knowledge proof experts and we're all about creating a future where digital finance and governance are secure, transparent and private. So imagine billions of digital finance being safely secured without fears of getting hacked, or, worse, the collapse of FTX 2.0. And so with AI raising questions of what's real and projections of 70% [00:07:00] of consumers engaging in digital finance by 2025, privacy isn't just an option, it's, it's a must. And that's where we come in, where we provide a suite of privacy-driven services, Fineapple, zkWallet, zkVoting, zkDNA and zkLogis. Empowering secure interactions across finance, supply chain, ID and governance. 

Fineapple, our hybrid ZX, combine centralized speed with a [00:07:30] decentralized transparency. And it features the world's first realtime proof of reserve. so this means constant retail investor protection, assuring people, f- for example, you have XRP holders and other investors, that their assets are fully backed even in the most volatile of markets. And with zkWallet, we're setting the standard for private and compliant transactions.. As privacy risks grow, Zkrypto enables millions to interact safely in digital finance and Fineapple is ready now, ready to support platforms and transactions, trades, coins, assets, like XRP, transforming payments with our realtime [00:09:00] secure proof of reserve.

So at Zkrypto, this is the kind of future we're building, a global network where privacy, security and transparency come together to empower financing governance.

Lauren Weymouth: 06:51 That's amazing. All right. Now zooming into zkVoting, what is the problems that zkVoting is solving?

Aerin Kim: 07:00 So zkVoting basically tackles the main challenges faced in online voting systems, which are [00:09:30] transparency, verifiability and privacy. So typical e-voting systems, uh, struggle to achieve a balance between transparent vote integrity and vote privacy and this is because they lack clear mechanisms for verifying votes, Or they have the mechanism, and at trade off they compromise user privacy in the process. And so this leaves space for essentially hacking, or interference from hacking, from the individual, but also hacked systems, which are sometimes out of our control.

And so zkVoting directly tackles these issues by enabling transparent blockchain-verified voting, where anyone and everyone can review, that their vote is both authentic and private. Meaning that votes are fully protected from outside manipulation and making them secure, private and verifiable. 

Lauren Weymouth: 08:00 So you were saying that with this system. we're getting rid of fraud or voter manipulation?

Aerin Kim: 08:05 Exactly.

Lauren Weymouth: 08:06 And how reliable is it?

Aerin Kim: 08:07 The reliability behind zkVoting is, I would personally say, very strong. And I can confidently say that because it is grounded in proven peer-reviewed computer science. So our security, including voter anonymity and vote verifiability has been cryptographically proven through rigorous research and formal proofs. So on a more technical reasoning we use a unique combination of zero-knowledge proofs and something called a nullifiable commitment scheme. And, essentially, this ensures that each vote remains anonymous, tamper-proof, even under potential attacks.

So, basically, the system offers end-to-end verifiability, allowing anyone to independently verify that all votes are accurately counted, without compromising voter privacy. And this approach provides the kind of high-level trust that a voting system in election requires. 

Lauren Weymouth: 09:05 Okay. So what I got out of that is that it's rock solid. 

Aerin Kim: 09:06 Basically, yes.

Lauren Weymouth: 09:10 All right. now, this is all under the guidance of Professor Hyunok Oh, who I work with through our UBRI program at Hanyang University. Now, he's the founder and CEO here at Zkrypto. Just take it a step back. Aerin, how did you come to lead business development for Zkrypto?

Aerin Kim: 09:23 so that's a really funny question. Honestly, by pure chance., I was actually a research assistant

Lauren Weymouth: 09:30 At the university?

Aerin Kim: 09:31 No, not at the university, at a different ... Cheongju University.

Lauren Weymouth: 09:34 Okay.

Aerin Kim: 09:35 And I was under the economics and, global business development department,as was Professor Zar, I heard of Professor Oh, and he was founding his startup. It was literally by pure chance. I was informed of what zero-knowledge proofs were and that just blew my mind. Because, again, it doesn't make sense. Like, how can you prove something is correct without revealing information? It's a paradox. It really took a lot to get my like mind wrapped across. but after finding out what, [00:13:00] zero-knowledge proofs were and what he was doing, like, enhancing the cryptography and creating at the time the voting system.

I kind of fell in love. And I was like, "You know what? I want to be a part of this journey." And so I pitched myself. I was like, "Hi."

"You're really cool. You're really cool, but you're only based in Korea. And I think that the world needs to know about you guys." so I was like, "Can I please work for you?" (laughs)

Lauren Weymouth: 10:28 Uh, well so that works?

Aerin Kim: 10:29 Literally. Honestly, huge credit to him and, the co-founder, Professor Jihye Kim. They, for some reason, took a leap of faith and they trusted me. I was really young, by the way, at the time.But I was like very passionate and I was like, "Hey, guys. So, you know, there's something called CES, can we like do this?" And they were like, "Okay, sure."

Lauren Weymouth: 10:48 So you're responsible for bringing them into CES, which ended up getting all the awards.

Aerin Kim: 10:54 I mean, I, I gave the idea.

Lauren Weymouth: 10:55 Okay.

Aerin Kim: 10:56 I suggested it.

Lauren Weymouth: 10:57 Yeah. Well, you planted the seed.

Aerin Kim: 10:58 Uh, yes, but, uh, uh, uh ... (laughs) ... And at the time it was like two weeks before and, and they were like, "You know, there, there's two weeks." Like, "You sure about this?" Like, "You don't have to." Like, they were really, you know, very laid back. They were like, "You know, it's okay. It ... I- if you want to, you can." 'what I really admire about the company culture is that they really let you do everything that you want to do. You know? It's like, "We'll give you a chance." And at the time, I pitched to them, you know, "CES, it's like a global conference and I think we, we, we deserve a presence. They deserve to know us." You know? "They need to know what you guys have created." And, you knowI sent in the application, uh, with the team and somehow we ended up winning the Best of Innovation Awards. And somehow, with that, we ended up building Korea's first ever blockchain voting system for the government. And somehow I'm now here with you in the studio. So really, I credit pure luck and just a lot of help from my friends, from the professors from my CEO, Hyunok. and, and our team at Zkrypto.

Lauren Weymouth: 12:06 Okay. So what Aerin is pointing to is that there's this mobile app that has won CES innovation award two years in a row. I mean, clearly this has technological prowess, but it was selected [00:16:00] because it solves a problem facing humanity. Okay. So what else goes into your day job, of being, you know, head of business development? What are you responsible for?

Aerin Kim: 12:25 That's a very good question. It's really about reaching the leads and finessing our product. Because although, as I said, it is reliable and I still do stand by that, there's always more room for improvement. There, there always is. I think it would be very [00:16:30] arrogant of me to say it was perfect. There's always room for more. And so it's about,  realizing those needs and speaking with clients, speaking, with, for example, like the government, "What, what more can be made?" And, again, it's not only, maintaining those existing partnerships, but creating new leads and, and creating, for example, like here at TechCrunch, this is our first time here at TechCrunch. 

It's making sure that we're in the right spaces pushing the innovation andIt's one thing to have a really good product and an amazing  architecture. It's another thing to actually show that to the world. my role, at Zkrypto is ... It's giving them justice. It's, it's giving them justice and giving them a voice to share to the world.

Lauren Weymouth: 13:22 Wow. That sounds super empowering. 

Aerin Kim: 13:24 (laughs) Thank you.

Lauren Weymouth: 13:25 All right. We're gonna pick up where you left off, and saying government Korea's National Election Commission is implementing blockchain voting for government elections. What were those conversations like, to win this contract?

Aerin Kim: 13:35 Oh, uh, not easy. (laughs) I mean, but, obviously, I, I can't say anything bad. Well it wasn't easy because, as ever with governments. there's a lot of screening and process involved, [00:18:00] which, there has to be. Right? there are so many security checks, and papers, and reviews, and reports, and experiments that you have to submit. honestly, I would credit CES. It got our foot in the door. [00:18:30] 'Cause by winning the Best of Innovation award, and especially being quoted by Kinsey Fabrizio, president of CTA. a government representative walked by our booth and that's how the conversation started. And we eventually- you know, brought back ... that back to Korea and it's snowballed. So the initial process was very difficult. But once we got that little, that tiny foot in the door, we were able to progress from then.

Lauren Weymouth: 14:27 so laws must be favorable to online voting to allow this to happen right?

Aerin Kim: 14:39 Yes, legal frameworks do play a role. In Korea, for example, online voting is permitted for local referendums and schools, having less restrictions. So this does allow for broader acceptance and application for e-voting. And globally, again, countries like Estonia have led the way for online voting for national elections, as well as areas, like Central America, [00:29:30] Southeast Asia, and other parts of Africa. Personally, I don't think it's just about regulations. I think it's about ensuring security and reliability. Many countries have previously tried electric voting, especially in the early 2000s with the internet boom. However, unfortunately, at the time they didn't work. And so, obviously, governments were like, " Scrap this." "We're not going to do this." And-

Lauren Weymouth: 15:20 So this is 2.0.

Aerin Kim: 15:21 Exactly. So we completely understand the concerns, surrounding  stability and trust because it's been broken before. And so what really matters now, I think is to prove that online voting can actually be safe. It can be reliable.My personal goal for zkVoting is to actually demonstrate that our technology is a [00:30:30] solution and it's not about,trying to convince them, it's about showing them. It's about showing lawmakers that secure online voting is achievable. And, essentially, I approach it like this. We are the green flag after a toxic relationship.

There's trauma involved. You know? And trauma takes a long time to heal. And sometimes, as the green flag, you have to just constantly show up for the relationship. Which in here, is the relationship [00:31:00] between, reliable, safe election voting systems with the digital space. so just my goal is to, let the technology speak for itself and show that secure, transparent online voting is not only possible, but, it can be trusted. And with that, I think it's inevitable that lawmakers will, will be onboard because, essentially, that's all we want. Right? We want secure voting [00:31:30] systems.

Lauren Weymouth: 16:37 Oh, absolutely. I mean, I feel like we spend half our time thinking about the regulations and the policies that are gonna enable startups to be able to run with this technology,and operate in different jurisdictions around the world.  And from this relationship, have you had interest from other countries or entities, other boards or NGOs, to use zkVoting? 

Aerin Kim: 16:58 yeah, so CES, again huge credit to them. We've had multiple governments from Central American countries, as well as Southeast Asian countries, they've expressed interest in integrating our technology. So that's been really rewarding for us. It's really cool to see how governments are embracing new technology. It's not restricted just to technology. Whenever something is new in this space, in whatever field that may be, there will be suspicion. There will be a kind of, "What, what are you doing?" 

But we've been lucky enough, where governments are actually willing to listen and be like, "Okay, this is cool. Let's see what you guys have to offer."

Lauren Weymouth: 17:36 . So you've been running around to trade shows demo-ing this product, let's talk a little bit about how it actually works in real time. I got to watch one of your demos that's on YouTube and it looked like the voting took under a minute. Can you kinda talk us through how it works?

Aerin Kim: 17:49 zkVoting basically combines the transparency of the blockchain with what I earlier mentioned about the nullifiable commitment scheme, along with ZKPs. And, essentially, this is how we secure the voting process. So how it works is that every vote is recorded on a public blockchain, mind you. So, basically, the entire process is fully transparent. And anyone can verify the votes and final tally. But at the same time because each vote is encrypted and verified through ZKPs, although it's transparent, privacy is still secured. And here, the nullifiable commitment scheme basically gives each voter both a real and a fake voting key. 

Meaning that if a voter faces coercion whether it be from peer pressure or manipulation they can use the, the fake key to cast a seemingly valid vote that doesn't actually impact the tally or the election process.

Lauren Weymouth: 18:45 Wow. So it's like a fail-safe.

Aerin Kim: 18:47 E- exactly, it is. It is. And so this allows them to vote freely, without fears of coercion, resistance. So, essentially, zkVoting can publicly verify each vote's authenticity, maintain transparency and ensure the election process is transparent, secure and private.

Lauren Weymouth: 19:06 And so you mean like there's a dashboard that everyone can see the results, but you don't know exactly where the votes are coming in from. And can you vote like on your mobile from home?

Aerin Kim: 19:13 Yes. 

Lauren Weymouth: 19:14 Yes, okay.

Aerin Kim: 19:15 So we have the mobile app and we also have the, uh, in-person, voting pulsation as well. 

Lauren Weymouth: 19:21 So what's on the horizon for zkVoting?

Aerin Kim: 19:23 that's a really [00:23:30] good question. So our mission is to make secure, transparent voting accessible not only in Korea, but worldwide. So in Korea, as I mentioned, we have partnered with the government and it's now being rolled in small municipal offices as we speak today. And that's been a major milestone. But our goal is to expand into international markets, offering zkVoting for local government elections, private sector [00:24:00] votes, uh, as well as broadcasting. And we aim to lead the global voting market with blockchain verified elections and a vision that we believe to be achievable. 

And so to support this expansion, we're planning to collaborate with local marketers in each region and to make sure we're meeting each unique needs in the market. But also beyond public elections, we also want to implement it in running for DOWs, for investment projects especially s- ... given our recent announcement of Fineapple. We want to allow for DOW governance -Empowering secure, transparent decision making within investment groups. And so, yeah, we're really excited to see how zkVoting will strengthen both the physical and digital space in governance.

Lauren Weymouth: 20:36 (laughs) Man, it seems like a really tough sell, but I would love to see the U.S. government understand and actually see this, this service, to digest it and see if it's possible here. That would be amazing. Aerin, is there anything we've not discussed that you would like our listeners to know about?

Aerin Kim: 20:54 I think on the zkVoting side, I think we've covered the essentials. Um, but I'd love to introduce Fineapple. 

that's our recent announcement. It's the next gen [00:25:30] finance hybrid exchange that combines the best of centralized and decentralized trading. And it's especially exciting because of our realtime proof of reserve protocol, is a breakthrough within the fintech space. current PoR systems they're very few and far. but even the existing PoR systems, they take 35 hours for, what, a screenshot. It's a static screenshot. We have managed to overcome that hurdle by recalibrating the architecture, to make sure those assets, users can check that those assets are backed in real time. 

So basically this, continuous, on-the-spot verification of asset holdings addresses the concerns that traders might have. And it's similar to how Ripple, for example, aims to bring real-time solutions to cross-border payments. So Fineapple is just another example of how we're using zero-knowledge proof to solve practical challenges in finance, insuring transparency and trust.. in every transaction. And we can't wait to see how this will disrupt ... the exchange space.

Lauren Weymouth: 22:10 And who's the target audience for Fineapple?

Aerin Kim: 22:13 Fineapple, for exchanges, like coin base,and, also for the everyday trade the everyday retail investor. Because, we understand that. it's scary. Your assets can be taken at any time. You don't know whether your assets are there are not. And at least with Fineapple, you can check that your assets are there in real time. You don't have to wait 35 hours. I mean, who can wait 35 hours? Not me. 

Lauren Weymouth: 22:40 Yeah, not me.

Aerin Kim: 22:41 Uh, so ... (laughs)

Lauren Weymouth: 22:42 So how do our listeners find out more about your work?

Aerin Kim: 22:45 You can learn more about our work on our website, www.zkrypto.com. And that's spelled with a K. Z-K-R-Y-P-T-O. you can also connect with us on LinkedIn, for the latest news, contacts and updates. if any of our listeners today are from Thailand or are planning to visit Thailand, we'll be in Thailand for Devcon. if not, if you're on the State side, we'll be at CES in Las Vegas next year January as well. So-

Lauren Weymouth: 23:11 Are you going for the third annual award?

Aerin Kim: 23:14 Uh, perhaps. 

Lauren Weymouth: 23:16 (laughs)

Aerin Kim: 23:17 (laughs) Perhaps.

Lauren Weymouth: 23:18 Aerin, this was awesome, to be able to talk in person about our favorite tech, especially one that gets us out of bed in the morning and one that legitimately solves for problems that, if implemented correctly and are adopted, make a difference in the world. Thank you for working to educate people in the privacy that zk-SNARKs provides in blockchain in general, to forward our sector.

And thank you for sharing zkVoting on All About Blockchain to help our listeners better understand how countries are using blockchain for national projects.

Aerin Kim: 23:47 Thank you so much, Lauren it's been a pleasure talking to you and being here in the Ripple office  and the coffee has-

Lauren Weymouth: 23:53 (laughs)

Aerin Kim: 23:54 ... been amazing as well. (laughs)

Lauren Weymouth: 23:55 Yes. I introduced Aerin to our coffee bar, called XR-presso. (laughs) And to our listeners and subscribers, thank you for your ears and for your feedback to my UBRI at ripple.com email. If you have any questions about this episode, or ideas for future episodes, please reach out. Until next time.