Hollywood Meets Blockchain NFTs | Michelle Munson

Ready for the new web3 content experience? Look to the minting of derivative NFTs. You can exclusively view The Walking Dead's final season and  join the drop of limited edition NFTs of Dolly Parton's new album!

Learn how the Entertainment Industry is turning to Blockchain for Content Ownership with Eluvio CEO Michelle Munson. She discusses how Eluvio is being used to provide owner-controlled storage, distribution, and monetization of digital content at scale, powering the NFT marketplace.

*This episode is being launched on International Women's Day in celebration of one leading woman pushing this technology main stream. We hope this story inspires more women to join the blockchain revolution.

Transcript

Lauren Weymouth (00:00):

This is Lauren Weymouth recording from San Francisco, California. Your host of All About Blockchain. We're speaking to another startup who went through an Uber accelerator program to explore the successfully developed use case of entertainment, specifically transforming distribution and economics of premium digital content. Our guest today is Michelle Monson, co-founder and CEO of a hot new startup called Eluvio. It's transforming the entertainment industry with blockchain. We'll hear all about what that means for our viewing experience and who is involved. But I wanna gush a little bit about Michelle Monson. Michelle's an Emmy award-winning technologist, a pioneer in digital video, transport technology with her invention, which I had to look this, it means replaced satellite and traditional tape-based delivery services.

She co-founded and led the company Aspera as CEO through an acquisition by IBM. And that's just to say that she is already a successful entrepreneur who drives successful businesses from zero to hero, which has had her win awards, like the international trade association, broadcast and media industry entrepreneur of the year, and was named one of the top 25 people to watch by TV Technology. You'll hear what a widely busy CEO and business leader she is, but what I want you to know is that she's an engineer by trade and she also gets her hands deep into the tech troubleshooting, complicating coding when necessary. And Michelle holds 10 patents with a role model like this. We hope this episode lowers the barriers to women entering the field. Michelle, welcome to All About Blockchain on International Women's Day.

Michelle Monson (01:30):

Hi Lauren. Thank you so much for having me.

Lauren Weymouth (01:33):

(laughs) All right, great. So you're a fast, you're a startup woman, probably always on the go in one of the most cutting edge fields going mainstream. How do you relax?

Michelle Monson (01:41):

Oh, what a nice way to start out the conversation. First of all, I really enjoy living in Berkeley and, uh, Berkeley is amenable to many things outside of work. And one of the things I've always enjoyed is getting outdoors, being active. I like to run, I am a across fitter and I actually did a lot of dance growing up, so I still do bar I enjoy those things a lot. I also have two kids and I love doing things with them. They're both boys. and I wanted to say in regards to your introduction, well, I have ended up doing a lot with digital media in my career. I actually am foremost someone for the internet and I've been working on content over the internet most of my life. that's sort of the common thread through all of this.

Lauren Weymouth (02:21):

Got it. Awesome. Well, thanks for the intro. I now picturing you running around after your boys. it keeps you in shape as well.  alright, so blockchain is so fast paced. How do you keep up with the constant changes?

Michelle Monson (02:31):

I think most fundamentally, Lauren, I've enjoyed being in blockchain because it really aligns with why I've been interested in the internet since I, really discovered web browsing and was graduating as an undergrad. I wanna step back and say a little bit, because this will kind of put into context. What I mean, the year after I graduated from college, I started an internet service provider in my hometown in Kansas. This is something a lot of people would never know about me. I am from a farm community and this were the times when you really didn't have broadband internet in these communities.

And I also really did fall in love with the web when I discovered it mostly because I could really get it ideas everywhere. this is another thing where now, you know, 20 years plus in the bay area, it's hard to think this way, but we honestly did not have of access to absolutely everything in the Midwest. when I was growing up and I really valued ideas the internet kind of spawned,the possibility that you could really, you know, transcend those boundaries. And I got really excited about it early. The reason this connects to blockchain is because I ended up going to grad school in computer science and starting getting into on ownership. And what was the first wave of content over the internet after, I got outta my master's degree.

And, you know, 20 years later, approximately, here we sit, 2020 now, 21, we've got this new era of the internet and blockchain to me is not the organizing principle of that. It's also the way that's really democratizing the internet as a technology platform. And that's what I'm all about. I've always worked to try to, you know, advance what the internet can do for us. And then I think that this opening that blockchain created is really reconfiguring everything. First of all, it has huge economic power. We already see that in crypto. I love that because I actually like scale and I like to see, systems grow, grow big on natural, um, forces, which, capital helps.

And then the second thing that's really fantastic about it is when you get into ownership and providence, which is what we're really interested in at ELUVIO, that is how do you really take digital IP and make it possible for a creator to monetize that at scale and in, in audiences to own in that, right. That also aligns with, why I think it's important  to innovate for the internet. lastly I think it solves social problems really, or it can, in ways that, maybe are a bit more creative than what we often find in sort of the tired debates.

Lauren Weymouth (04:55):

Well, that was amazing. Cause you kind of just answered my next two questions was more about how you got involved in blockchain and what excites you about the industry. But the thread that I really heard from internet to blockchain was democratizing access.

Michelle Monson (05:06):

Yep.

Lauren Weymouth (05:07):

Really providing a solution. Right.

Michelle Monson (05:09):

That's right.

Lauren Weymouth (05:11):

So this is kind of fun and kind of recent, you recently spoke on a panel timed around Sundance and that's one of my favorite films festivals. Yeah. I was excited to see that.  and it was for streaming film in the NFT initiative. What, what are the cliff notes from your session there? What was the message that you left?

Michelle Monson (05:25):

Well, this was a really interesting opportunity that we're seeing repeating itself in this case, IndieFlix and the CEO of IndieFlix, and their holding company, Liquid Media Group wanted to really start pioneering around blockchain distribution and also engagement.and so we, we did a popup screening of the angst film with she's created by Sheila and Drin who is right herself, a, a fantastic independent, film producer, not to mention the fact, the CEO of IndieFlix. And we also had an, an NFT offer around that. That was really for the community around positive mental health, this theme, which was more, social causal motivated really is kind of the bread and butter of all the things we're involved in commercially.

I mean, on the other end of the spectrum, we power Fox's mask singer marketplace, which as you can see is a wide range in the spectrum of creativity from angst and mental health over here with IndieFlix. because of, having this utility for content in the large and being able to tokenize it, we're now starting to see this going through many different pockets of creative work. I mean, not just obviously film and TV more traditional, but getting into very nontraditional formats that are a lot more interactive and then all the way back to more static media like books, right.

Lauren Weymouth (06:40):

Yeah. It is providing tokenization and all kinds of new things for, for people in this, this field. Let's dive into Eluvio. what are the problems you're setting out to solve with blockchain?

Michelle Monson (06:49):

So if you, you think about a, a creator that has to this date made digital IP, and a lot of it video, what are your choices? What are your choices to reach your audience, Your choices are basically the web 2.0 platforms, which have large audience scale, but they take a essentially ownership of your content. They license it in some, for you either directly or indirectly. If you're on an advertising platform, you're basically being used to, to draw advertising dollars, if you're going to Netflix or basically licensing, right? So the first problem right there is that the creator doesn't keep ownership of their IP. Imagine if we do that in technology

I often think, being an entrepreneur has created a lot of tech it's hard to imagine just basically giving over ownership of your IP, particularly when it's something that really, matters to you. And which can have very substantial value either in your small community or, or in the large right. Second issue. Right. Second thing about blockchain in this compared to web two situation, is the audience. What's the audience in web 2.0, well, they're basically broadcasted to, and their engagement is directly monetized. As we know, by all the web 2.0 platforms through advertising dollars and in the blockchain world, you can not only have complete providence over your data. you can also own into the media that you support.

with that, we see, just an explosion of strategies to really take advantage of NFTs as a instrument, to not only, you know, start by giving people way to, to have a new, dentity with, with the creative work, but also to, to start to be owners and create additional, value liquidity on top of this with, with retraining possibilities. And, and I think the instrument is so powerful this way, that we're, we're just at the very beginning of what one could actually do with it. The whole idea of Eluvio, is to make it possible to scale this up, right? One of the things that doesn't exist. And if you take look behind the scenes and web 2.0 content distribution and storage platforms is the fact that, they, first of all, they're too 20 years old.

CDNs, uh, IPO, the first [inaudible 00:10:20] IPO was like 1999, I think so 20 plus. And then on top of that, they've kind of like grown up as these siloed supply chains that sort of service this web 2.0 kind of licensing and broadcast, streaming model. And they're very big now, but, nothing about that allows for creator ownership, nothing about that allows for true low cost distribution that could scale up direct to audience, nothing about that allows for the, the content itself to, you know, be trustless in its distribution. So the I audience could actually, engage directly with it, nothing about it allows for people to actually own into the media that they have taken advantage of NFTs as instruments to do that, right.

So what we've done is create a platform that makes, makes that possible. we're all about being able to scale this for premium experiences, any kind of digital, IP, and then to make it possible for an audience through a wallet, to be able to engage with that, both buy into it and also watch it right.

Lauren Weymouth (09:54):

You can imagine now you're a hero for all the artists and the content makers who have been looking for a way to take power over their own economics, and cut out the middle men for years. Is there anyone else doing this in the space? Do you have competitors?

Michelle Monson (10:06):

With some humility about all this, this is at the very beginning, right? I mean, we're just at the point where, the whole, you know, sort of loop, if you will, the whole cycle is possible, right? It's one matter to have the technology to do it. It's another to have the mainstream, a adoption of things like, NFTs to start with so that people even think in this direction. And we're just getting to the point where,creatives are starting to realize how you could actually build a new cycle of engagement with audiences along the way, not just in the end product. So I think it's,in part to be able to create tech technology, to unlock this.

It's a whole nother for the whole ecosystem to start to form around it. And I think worth the very early days of this, as far as your question goes, I think what we've done with the content fabric is very novel and original. It's very difficult. I'm sure that there are overlaps in many other areas, but we did create it from scratch with this goal in mind. And we're early enough in the cycle now that our concerns or barriers are not about, being a lookalike, but more about having the rest of the ecosystem be able to form around this, that is why we're involved in many of the projects that you see. Lastly, I don't think anybody's proven how this is gonna totally last and scale and make the kind of, commercial impact, the kind of money that traditional web two distribution does.

And with all of the web 2.0 companies getting into, pseudo content creator models, introducing NFTs into web 2.0 platforms, creating new kinds of, NFT marketplaces. it's gonna be a very, I think, fuzzy situation for a while till it really gets clear the difference between owning and distributing your content and just giving it over to an NFT platform on a web 2.0 environment, right?

Lauren Weymouth (11:53):

Yeah. I mean, you've really helped us think about this from a business perspective. I mean, you can spend all this time getting the technology sound and scalable and, and perfected, but then you have to spend some time educating the market on it and actually showing them what the value proposition is.

Michelle Monson (12:08):

Totally.

Lauren Weymouth (12:09):

You've had some well known customers so far, I think, some to name blockchain, Creative Labs, the NFT Studio, Fox Entertainment, and their animation studios, Bento Box, MGM Studios, has that helped you bring in new clients really get the conversation going, what, what else?

Michelle Monson (12:23):

Yeah. Tremendously. I think every project that that gets going has fortunately some early adopters that helped to give it lift, right. I just wanna say huge, thank you, to two of our early customers. Microsoft actually was the very first large use of our wallet. they did a, a launch of Windows 11, that was a streaming concert it was actually an augmented reality production, with the streaming concert and multi cam view, plus an NFT giveaway. That's the first time we brought out our wallet at larger scale.it was great for us to get a substantial user base going and then Fox with, just tremendous opportunity through the mask verse. That's the mass singer marketplace and NFT game, which allowed us to build more primitives than, we had ever, created before that, because that is a, a full blown gamified experience.

It's now in its second phase. And it has a pretty big community. We also launched retraining on the top of that and the tenant rebrand marketplaces that go into a, a whole universal space for listing and retrading and NFT media. then coming up, there's actually going to be a major announcement with one of the, biggest NFT projects we've been involved in yet, which also has to do television. I can't reveal until it comes out who it is, but, certainly having  these opportunities, number one, to build out the technology, improve it, to learn our operations and also within the credibility, One of the biggest challenges for blockchain startups and blockchain technology is moving to the mainstream, right.

We put, huge amount of effort into to making an ux, user experience that we think can, can really work for every person to be able to participate in,purchase of non fungible tokens, holding in their wallet, enjoyment in their wallet, and also, to cut the cost down of the whole thing, the content storage, distribution, and minting. So you could do NFTs that are just a giant cost for collectors, right. I think being with these bigger brands, it's just a massive opportunity to prove that out, and then along with that, we've been lucky to have some smaller creators like, like Sheila and Drin with IndieFlix.

And you're gonna see in the next few weeks, a combination of launches around what our individual artists, in various genres, very excited. We'll have one release in music coming up, very soon. And then also sports. Fortunately the big old sports market is always very, very on top of these things. there's a lot of room left in there to do some interesting things. So,that's what we're involved in. And I, I really feel to your point that, the only way we get started is to have these early things, right.

Lauren Weymouth (15:06):

Yeah. And those are great examples of what your clients are using your products and services for. So thanks for sharing those. We actually, haven't gone deep onto NFTs in the show in any episode. so I'd love to just take a step back. and even for those who haven't bothered to explore the acronym NFT, it's a non fungible token, it's a unit of data stored on a blockchain. So you can think about digital files, such as photos, videos, audio, and each token is uniquely identifiable. we'd love to hear about the NFT derivative, minting your providing for all ranges of content experiences. And one thing that makes Eluvio different is that the media content and the associate NFT are interconnected. Can you explain a little bit?

And kinda explain how that differs from more conventional NFT or blockchain networks.

Michelle Monson (15:46):

Yeah. Maybe before I even say anything about this, I'll tell you a little anecdote.I think it was 2018. this is very early in the NFT,world I went into the San Francisco, college of art and design for a workshop. Cause I wanted to recruit some design people into our team. And there was actually a small panel talking about owning your art on the blockchain. And I remember sitting in the audience of that, just thinking to myself, you know, this is exactly why we're making the content fabric because the content fabric is basically your vehicle whereby you can effectively publish and distribute with these like premium, scalable properties, something that is also backed by blockchain contract and that can have its own blockchain primitives.

That's the basic idea of content in the fabric. back then the examples were, were really, narrow in terms of, you know, particularly digital art, right? long before people happen. What makes this whole idea so powerful now is the fact that the content objects that are in the fabric not only have a blockchain address, but also any reading of them is authorized through a contract transaction. And that authorization criteria can be any policy, including NFT ownership. So first of all, just the distribution itself is inherently permissioned, through a blockchain transaction, which itself can be tied into token ownership.

So there's your direct linkage and that's everything we do. Every representation, every stream, every static read, every download of content, every play out, you name it, that's how the fabric works. Then you add on the fact that the fabric objects are programmable, they can have code. And that includes being able to couple them with dynamic, smart contracts. And so minting in ERC-721 mint operation is just another contract operation in the fabric. So a content object, um, can be a template for an set of NFTs that are minted on a 721 contract. And because of the fact that each of those objects is not a file copy instead, it's a template with a set of references to bites.

It's very efficient to be able to read a object that's nearly the same for every NFT, just changes a bit in metadata and then pipe that data to a contract transaction, which runs directly in the fabric, which is itself a full stack blockchain. Um, and because, you know, we decided, uh, you know, partly because of Ethereum's maturity, uh, to build a, a full EBM stack into the fabric early on, it makes it easy to, to then, uh, introduce primitives like minting of 721 contracts. And that's exactly what we do. So every content object, once it's published can be made in NFT template and minted directly in a single or in bulk as, uh, as, um, ERC-721 contracts, uh, Ethereum based NFTs. And then all those NFTs that are owned can be permissioning criteria for any media experience. The content fabric serves because of the first property. So you've got a linkage and you've got a low cost mentoring factory, for the content. And so, what we're really all about at Eluvio  is at least what, our goal or vision, in this is, is that we could then unlock the ability to use an NFT as essentially your certificate of right. Or ownership to any experience with digital content

Lauren Weymouth (19:13):

And can you give us some examples maybe so to help our listeners conceptualize more?

Michelle Monson (19:17):

Yeah, sure. So first streaming, So streaming a film. or streaming an episode, for example, in the case of a live channel, for example, having an NFT that unlocks your ability to watch that, highlights having an NFT that essentially, that you create a place from, start point and an endpoint and on a clip, or on a live stream that you're making in place and that's minting in front of you. and then of course also what we think of as traditional NFT is just short animations that get published into the fabric, that are essentially minted on demand. For example, when a pack is opened, right, which is one of the primitives that's utilized in, in the mass singer. Iit allows for this interplay between permission access to media, right.and then also the, direct publishing, if you're the creator where this becomes, your means of selling.

Lauren Weymouth (20:03):

Got it. That makes sense. Now you also have Eluvio live that provides ticketed streaming events in media marketplace for global artists including Black Eyed Peas. have you gotten feedback so far on how this is working or what it's bringing to the marketplace?

Michelle Monson (20:16):

Well, Eluvio live is the platform by which we, provide all of the support for,marketplaces, NFT minting and all forms of streaming exhibition directly on top of the content fabric. So all of the companies and artists doing this or tenants of Eluvio live.

Lauren Weymouth (20:32):

Got it. Okay. So that is the mothership, Eluvio live.

Michelle Monson (20:36):

That's the mothership.

Lauren Weymouth (20:37):

Everything you've been discussing is Eluvio live.

Michelle Monson (20:39):

Yeah, yeah. That's exactly right. That's right. And the course technology is the content fabric. That's the blockchain and content platform.

Lauren Weymouth (20:44):

Okay. Thanks for stringing that together. we'd love to hear, about your Berkeley blockchain accelerator experience. maybe what stage was Eluvio in when you entered the program and what had you choose this particular program?

Michelle Monson (20:55):

as far as accelerator goes, I, I think first of all, UC Berkeley is how I learned about blockchain in the first place. I just kind of connecting back, after Shavan and I left IBM Aspera, which was really my first company in my 14 years of my life, right. In that summer of 2017. we were thinking about creating the fabric and we thought we wanted to make it  natively a blockchain, but it was very, at least for us, very new. my approach to it was to kind of immerse myself into blockchain of Berkeley when the undergraduate organization that was starting to have, all kinds of outreach in tech, around what blockchain technology was.

Michelle Monson (24:56):

and then through that, I ended up going to the CESC conference, which was hosted at Cal, which is one of the biggest academic conferences around blockchain and kind of got my feet under myself in terms of what was the state of the art. And then over that year started to go to all of the blockchain of Berkeley symposiums. I went every week to everything and, at that point I learned about the accelerator being formed and decided to apply at that stage Eluvio we had just gotten our first customer MGM studios onto the content fabric. This was before 2019 was before NFTs, as, you know, at least this current like huge explosion.

We thought, the accelerator would be a great way to expand our horizons, get more understanding of, the whole space and have contact with other entrepreneurs and investors, and also keep and deepen our relationship with, the academic side at Cal and all of that proved out. we also hired several people, from Cal in fact,one of my closest colleagues here that is, does a lot of, core blockchain software is someone that I met through a blockchain at Berkeley and is a Cal graduate among many people who work here. So, so yeah, it ended up being a big kind of network for us.

Lauren Weymouth (22:42):

we can hear that you're a fan. I mean, it sounds like you got everything you set to get out of it and being able to higher talent in this town to boot is exceptional. for other startups that are thinking about maybe doing an accelerator, what advice would you give them if they were entering the program now?

Michelle Monson (22:56):

Well, I'm sure all programs are different. The great thing about the accelerator at Cal is that it's deep and tied to the university in a meaningful way, right? You get all the resources of what that means, which is quite different than just an accelerator, the quality of the people starting at the very top. and then I think the awareness out, one of the goals of accelerators to gain awareness into the investing community,blockchain's a bit different than traditional investing. And one of the things I think the program does an exceptionally good job of is really, expose the many models that you can use to scale up a blockchain company, including token offerings.

I feel that it's been very early on in this ahead of the game of many other places, right? So those are, I think, some of the key, advantages nowadays, incubators are, are very common and probably there are too many of them. Right. But a true, you know, gem, that's a specialist in the space of blockchain.I think that's where the accelerator at Berkeley comes in.

Lauren Weymouth (23:52):

Yeah. I think you're right there. And I don't know if you've already said it, but, when it comes to Eluvio's fundraising, are you bootstrapping or what stages are you in, in financing?

Michelle Monson (24:01):

Oh, my that's a great question. we were lucky that we got to bootstrap our company in the early phase, and that works very nicely for us, to get to a point of a series a and then last summer we closed our series a investment and, the timing was very good because of the climate,just in blockchain, in general. And for us, it also was at a point where we had a mature enough, stage of our technology and even,the beginnings of a go to market strategy that  it was quite well timed. I don't know, what we'll do for, for future phases, because we are, quite, intent on fully opening our platform, which opens up new models for, for investing, like, for example, token offerings.

Lauren Weymouth (24:42):

That's great. anything you share about your 2022 roadmap, or what next steps are for Eluvio?

Michelle Monson (24:46):

Oh, for sure. Yeah. because we really are committed to this idea that creators could actually self distribute. and because we think NFTs are a powerful instrument for allowing them to monetize and engage fans, we are scaling up, what are the Eluvio live primitives so that any creator can get at those and then fully opening our platform so that all of the power of blockchain economics can go into that. we're a quasai open platform right now in that the protocol is, but the, coming on to the platform, requires that you be an approved tenant, right. And, that's something that,we think can be fully open within this year.

Lauren Weymouth (25:26):

And this is kind of a stepping back, big question.I love to ask this question of those I'm interviewing. especially because for example, at the beginning of 2020, most of us hadn't heard of NFTs in by the end of 2021, that's all anyone could talk of about, where do you think the industry will be five years from now?

Michelle Monson (25:42):

Well, I'm old enough that I saw the very first bubble, right. we talked about it at the beginning. when I was just getting started, in my career, there was a huge bubble around streaming. And in the beginning, there was a huge appetite and the tech wasn't there to support the quality that people needed. And so then there was a grand bursting and a lot of money chased after there was a grand bursting of that bubble. Tons of companies went out of business. the technology itself started to actually truly mature, to a point that we have, what is today's, sort of web 2.0 video storage, distribution, supply chain, right. I think while every era is different and this one  has many unique characteristics that some of that will happen here too. That's why I feel that first of all, the conception of NFTs right now is incredibly narrow and greatly dup- duplicitous within that, that there are countless companies doing exactly the same thing, helping to create collector NFTs from very narrow examples of art that are, being thrown out to try to gain maximum value per offering. it's very much a narrow application of that instrument in my view. So I think that's going to run its course, and that more lasting models that are about using an NFT to scale audience to create our engagement and liquidity is where things are going to go. the part that I think people say that it's a bit cliche about gamification, I do really believe in.

the basic sort of human motivations to, to be part of this are identification. I wanna identify with this creative work and, the incentive of doing which is the gamification right. Being involved in this, and then thirdly is what I can earn over time. Right. And those are the three elements that I think are going to get,  really sort of blown up, at scale. And then, with that to kind of get back to your point, I think there's gonna be, a bit of a cycle that things go through around that. And we're definitely trying to build for the long term.

Lauren Weymouth (27:35):

Yeah. That's interesting that you say the identification piece for the consumer, with the artist. I talk about this with friends. I'm dating myself, but when used to buy a cassette tape, a record, a CD you'd physically have it, you'd open it, you'd read the music, you'd get into  the writing on it. And you felt like you had real ownership and you identified with the artist and you kind of are missing that piece right now with-

Michelle Monson (28:01):

That's right.

Lauren Weymouth (28:02):

... with mp3s and so-

Michelle Monson (28:03):

It's all broadcasted to you and the best you can do is put a like onto a social platform that it then takes that data and puts it back into their marketing campaign. Right. I think  that's really it, there's a massive unlock of identity in there. And then the other thing I really believe is that it's going to greatly broaden what we think of as creative work. And the reason I say that is because scale is everything in technology, as soon as you make it possible for a community of a thousand people to, to sustain, a creator. and, and this can go all the way into, digital IP of all clients. I think personally, this is not just entertainment or, or even art. I think this will get all the way into, not only content and writing, but also maybe even science. Right.

Lauren Weymouth (28:44):

Mm-hmm (affirmative). So interesting. Well, I think it's a relief to hear you believe and say that, that we're gonna expand beyond these crazy high price pieces of art that not everyone can wrap their heads around.

Michelle Monson (28:55):

Exactly.

Lauren Weymouth (28:56):

so Michelle, are you hiring?

Michelle Monson (28:57):

We are definitely hiring and like to invite anybody who is listening to this, who is in software engineering in any of the fields that we work in.and also ironically, we do a lot with data science and ML in our platform, to look us up. And then also we are growing our community. if you're interested in, community oevangelism kind of roles helping to support the growth of the company in relation to all of the fan communities, that's great too. So please see us. you can check out our website at.eluv.io and also, email us, or check out our careers.

Lauren Weymouth (29:29):

Uh, awesome. Michelle I, I've been working with over 40 universities, worldwide driving blockchain development, and you're are not only highly educated, but you're also celebrated having been inducted into the college and engineering hall of fame at your alma mata Kansas State University being a Fulbright scholar for achievement in science and math. And you've also now dedicated yourself to educating others in the field. I just wanna really appreciate you for being on the show today and for driving all kinds of new and interesting and exciting things that are happening using this technology for all of us to share in the future and opening up economics, right?

You're upgrading the economics for the entertainment industry and, we really appreciate you sharing what Eluvio has been doing so successfully loved, hosting you on Uberis podcast All About Blockchain. Thank you listeners for your time. Your comments on my LinkedIn and feedback to ubri@ripple.com are always welcome. Catch you the next episode.

Michelle Monson (30:38):

Thank you so much, Lauren.

Lauren Weymouth (30:39):

Thanks, Michelle.